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Gönderen Konu: The Link Between Shalit's Release and Iran's Bomb  (Okunma sayısı 5440 defa)

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Ekim 17, 2011, 03:11:23 ös
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For a determined leadership, a deal to free a kidnapped Israeli is like a candy bar waiting on the shelf. In contrast to peace and most other issues, the timing of such a deal depends entirely on Israel's leadership, and public enthusiasm is guaranteed. One word - yes - and the deal is done. It's no accident that the deal for the return of abducted businessman Elhanan Tennenbaum was orchestrated to take place on the day David Appel was indicted for bribery - a development that was supposed to have been followed by charges against then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

The Gilad Shalit deal can't be viewed in isolation. The timing stemmed from three factors. One is the summer's social protest. Regrettably, however, that wasn't a major motive; Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is far from viewing the protest as a threat - after all, his numbers in public opinion polls are still good.

A more significant reason is the damage the deal does to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, and to the chances of a peace agreement and a withdrawal from the territories. The deal strengthens Hamas and weakens Abbas, thus reducing the diplomatic prospects. And for Netanyahu, that's a worthy end.

Yet even this isn't the most important point. In Netanyahu's view, the PA president has already been thwarted in the United States by AIPAC, evangelical Christians and Congress, which, together, strong-armed U.S. President Barack Obama. Thus, it seems the real story is an attack on Iran.

Anyone who has held an in-depth discussion with the decision-making duo - Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak - could conclude that the timing of the Shalit deal is the prologue to such an attack. The operational reason - that the response to the attack will also come from Gaza, so it's preferable that Shalit not be there - is marginal. The real issue is legitimacy.

Even an extremist leadership needs legitimacy to endanger tens of thousands of its citizens. A principal source of such legitimacy is if the adventure enjoys sweeping support from the heads of the security services, as the Shalit deal did.

But there's one problem: No such support exists; quite the contrary. Even though Barak waged a campaign of persuasion via personal conversations, dozens of generals - past and present leaders of the defense establishment at the level of chief of staff or head of command - vehemently oppose an attack right now. Only one junior officer, Netanyahu's military secretary, doesn't really object.

The reason is simple: According to even the most optimistic assessments, a successful attack will delay Iran's nuclear program by two years at most. But an attack will greatly strengthen the messianic wing of Tehran's leadership - headed by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is currently on his way out - and increase Iran's determination to embark on an open race for a nuclear bomb.

Thus, an Israeli assault would merely shorten the time until an Iranian bomb was produced. Moreover, Iran's motivation to use such a bomb would increase, while Western support for the nuclear deterrent that protects Israel would be undermined.

The second possible source of legitimacy is the conviction, among both Israeli citizens and the West, that Israel's leadership has done everything it can to obtain an agreement that would stabilize the Middle East. An agreement would dramatically reduce the motivation for extremism in the region. An agreement, or even a sincere desire for one, would also lead the West to give Israel strategic support. Such support is essential to move to an open nuclear deterrent, obtain a NATO umbrella and curtail the salvos of thousands of missiles that would follow an Israeli assault - salvos that are liable to last for months, perhaps even years, according to individuals such as former Mossad chief Ephraim Halevy.

However, the opposite is true: Israel is viewed as more extremist and more isolated than ever before.

Hence, all that remains is an attempt to create the kind of quasi-mystical legitimacy that characterizes undemocratic regimes. The Shalit deal is meant to demonstrate that Netanyahu is a wise, fatherly leader with an aura of greatness. When it's necessary, he will worry about a single soldier, and when it's necessary to endanger tens of thousands of people, he will do so responsibly. This accurately describes the mood of the twosome in the headlines.

Each and every opponent of an attack within the defense establishment must therefore make it clear to the duo that they can't behave like this. It is not possible to endanger an entire nation for years via an underhanded, opportunistic maneuver - not in the dead of night; not by hastily convincing a few elderly rabbis; not in defiance of the entire defense establishment; not in defiance of all the past and present heads of the Israel Defense Forces, the Mossad, the Shin Bet security service, Military Intelligence and the Atomic Energy Commission; not in defiance of the United States; not when Ahmadinejad and his gang of messianists are growing weaker; not when there are signs of American measures in the wake of Iran's attempt to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to Washington and the International Atomic Energy Agency's impending severe report; not when the clouds are about to burst. Just plain no.

There are things that even a duo, the one half of which is brave and talented, can't do on its own. They have no mandate. Not now. Not like this.


By Sefi Rachlevsky


Ekim 17, 2011, 11:00:34 ös
Yanıtla #1
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To be cinvincing; Israel is trying to reaffirm its position among the prestige and dignity of international law.

By releasing 1000 palestinians, Israel will claim to be the side that wants peace. Therefore, it is going to be easier than before to kill  or captivate thousands.

All in all; 1000 palestinian is nothing when compared to those thousands who will die or be captivated in the near future.

That excatly is just a clean-up operation. The rest will be dusty and dirty.


Ekim 18, 2011, 01:48:46 ös
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To be cinvincing; Israel is trying to reaffirm its position among the prestige and dignity of international law.



I only agree with your first sentence. Pertaining to the last comments, I believe the vice versa scenario is highly likely to occur. Hamas will continue capturing more Shalits with a stipulation of exchange of 1000 more prisoners and this list will go further down.  It is disgraceful !
« Son Düzenleme: Ekim 18, 2011, 01:54:01 ös Gönderen: Isis »


Ekim 18, 2011, 07:59:37 ös
Yanıtla #3
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You certainly know the story of an ottoman gallipoli kid and a native resident of Australia.

In case you may not, let me remind you of it:

One day the grand-grand son of an Australian martyr comes to Gallipoli to visit his grand-grand father's grave. And he sees an ottoman gallipoli kid there. They have a short conversation over the graves and martyrs on there. The Australian says : "my grand-grand father was murdered by your grand-grand father"

The Ottoman kid's answer is simple but deep: "What was your grandfather doing there?"

Since the politic and social crash between Palestine and Israel, How many palestinians were murdered? Or how many Israelies? I am not saying jews. Because this would make the case racist.

Since the first revolt against Israel, 1967, nearly 760.000 palestinians were arrested and prisoned by Israel, 300 of whom were killed under the crueal torture in prisons. But only one Israeli ( Shalid ) was kidnapped by Hamas and he was released as a healthy individual.

I will not talk about thousands who were killed till now.

By the way, what was shalid doing there? Bringing a bunch of roses for palestinian kids? I don't think so. Terrorism is the center custom of Israel. It is the only thing that Israel makes use of and it is going to be.

Therefore, no need to consume the energy or breath that we are endowed. Everyone knows the truth.

Even jews

Check :








Ekim 29, 2011, 10:44:44 ös
Yanıtla #4
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By the way, what was shalid doing there? Bringing a bunch of roses for palestinian kids? I don't think so. Terrorism is the center custom of Israel. It is the only thing that Israel makes use of and it is going to be.



The answer of your question is below :

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/three-men-wounded-as-rocket-barrage-strikes-southern-israel-1.392598


Ekim 30, 2011, 12:12:30 öö
Yanıtla #5
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That is a great news for Israel. Now They have found a good excuse to kill another bunch of 1000 palestinian civils.

By the way, there is no South of Israel, it is the occupied land of Palestine. You haven't learned this yet you defense Israel? That's another good news.

I don't really understand how you people do not feel ashamed when defending israel. This obsession makes you right in every sense, in every platform. Because people just don't know what to say to you. They give up, we give up, I give up. Finally every one gives up trying to convince you about the innocence of thousands killed by Israel. Yet you will never understand. Because you are bestowed, this land is bestowed. So kill and plunder everywhere in the middleeast. It is yours. Cheer up !






Ekim 30, 2011, 01:00:07 öö
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That is a great news for Israel. Now They have found a good excuse to kill another bunch of 1000 palestinian civils.

By the way, there is no South of Israel, it is the occupied land of Palestine. You haven't learned this yet you defense Israel? That's another good news.

I don't really understand how you people do not feel ashamed when defending israel. This obsession makes you right in every sense, in every platform. Because people just don't know what to say to you. They give up, we give up, I give up. Finally every one gives up trying to convince you about the innocence of thousands killed by Israel. Yet you will never understand. Because you are bestowed, this land is bestowed. So kill and plunder everywhere in the middleeast. It is yours. Cheer up !







Before I start off my words, I condemn any kind of taking lifes either with political motives or religious/cultural reasons. Nevertheless I am tired of talking about the historic and contemporary facts in Middle East. You may refer to my previous forum messages in question.

Occupied?I wonder If you have no statehood recognition how on earth you would be occupied? If you read the history you may be familiar that Palestine was being occupied by the British early in WWII. Palestine had never acquired the entitlement of a state in the history anyway. Having attacked a state (which was in fact recognized by the United Nations where Turkey was and still is amongst one of the member states) and rebelled in various platforms , you must expect that the particular state or administration that you attacked would defend itself or perhaps take control of that area of rebel if necessary. Just what the current Turkish ruling government does in Northern Iraq now. Killed 270 PKK terrorists so far? How humane is that when preaching other country about what to do and what not. If what you called is "occupation" then you better remember what Ottoman Turkey did in the past. Oh no, when it actually comes to Turks, it is called "conquest" rather than invasion is not it? What about Cyprus? Why does not Turkey withdraw their forces there?  This is a double standard like hell.

My advice to you, just go for further reading and research about the Hamas and its activities towards their own allies. They used to kill the Fattah soldiers up until recently though. Furthermore, there are various videos of Hamas militans captured attacking a wedding party which was held by a Palestinian family simply because they played a music at the ceremony. And many other honor killings took place as well. If that is your support then fair enough. I have no energy to argue with Islamists on that matter.

I know, Israeli Forces and the governments (current and the past) made so ridiculous mistakes. Killing thousands after Shalid's kidnapping in the name of retaliation surely was not wise. But taking into account of geographic facts, there are no mountains or isolated rural land as opposed to Eastern Turkey, thereby the terrorists conceal themselves in the inhabitants' residential premises. Thus, military operations become challenging because many civilians would be subject to mass killings and grievous bodily harm. This is what exactly happens in Israel.


« Son Düzenleme: Ekim 30, 2011, 01:21:02 öö Gönderen: Isis »


Ekim 30, 2011, 01:29:42 öö
Yanıtla #7
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Everyone is responsible for what his words and belief signify, therefore I do not accept or believe that you condemn or reject any kind of civil attack and murder. I wish I could. But if your words really stand for what they mean, you can't tell me that you condemn any kind of civil murder. Because you simply do not if you are at the other side.

Anytime this Israel and Hamas crash is in question in Turkey, I see people trying to compare or include PKK matter as a part of this issue. Why? We all know PKK only aims to stop Turkey from being improved sociologically and technologically. And we also know that some certain countries help PKK do this ( my favourites are israel and usa ). PKK have nothing to do with kurds. I am sure because I am one of those kurds if I have to explain. PKK fights, because they don't want kurdish people to live happily and in good standards. So that the terrorism will continue in Turkey and Turkey will continue to spend much more money on military and all attention will be fixed at terrorism and Turkey will stop improving as it does for 60 years.

And cyprus. Your points always yells at me that I know more than you do about Turkey and its around. Lets see what history says; Cyprus was invaded by Greek and thousands of turkish people were slayed again by those very invaders and almost no turkish citizen would survive if Turkey had not sent his troops there. And now, some peace makers ( who they might be? ) wants Turkey retreat their soldiers back. Why? To kill the rest of Turkish people left after the invasion? Funny, isn't it?

That was just a summarized version of dark history.

If we return back to Hamas and Israel. There is no need to speak rhetorically or make symbolic talks. Israel should retreat forever from Palestine Lands and Hamas will establish the new Palestine. Hamas will have its guns and other military staff just as Israel do. Because they are both countries and no country has right to ask from other to disarm itself.This would be ridiculous.

I ask you to fix your attention at one point. Did you also realize that you still defend Israel by giving cases from Turkey or Hamas?

This is what you say: Turkey also does this, PKK also does this, hamas punishes people who listens music

Soooo, Israel has every right to kill, slay, murder and invade

This is the way world rolls, right?

By the way, I read a damn quantity of books. Thanks for the advice anyway. I appreciate.


Ekim 30, 2011, 02:05:37 öö
Yanıtla #8
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Everyone is responsible for what his words and belief signify, therefore I do not accept or believe that you condemn or reject any kind of civil attack and murder. I wish I could. But if your words really stand for what they mean, you can't tell me that you condemn any kind of civil murder. Because you simply do not if you are at the other side.

Anytime this Israel and Hamas crash is in question in Turkey, I see people trying to compare or include PKK matter as a part of this issue. Why? We all know PKK only aims to stop Turkey from being improved sociologically and technologically. And we also know that some certain countries help PKK do this ( my favourites are israel and usa ). PKK have nothing to do with kurds. I am sure because I am one of those kurds if I have to explain. PKK fights, because they don't want kurdish people to live happily and in good standards. So that the terrorism will continue in Turkey and Turkey will continue to spend much more money on military and all attention will be fixed at terrorism and Turkey will stop improving as it does for 60 years.

And cyprus. Your points always yells at me that I know more than you do about Turkey and its around. Lets see what history says; Cyprus was invaded by Greek and thousands of turkish people were slayed again by those very invaders and almost no turkish citizen would survive if Turkey had not sent his troops there. And now, some peace makers ( who they might be? ) wants Turkey retreat their soldiers back. Why? To kill the rest of Turkish people left after the invasion? Funny, isn't it?

That was just a summarized version of dark history.

If we return back to Hamas and Israel. There is no need to speak rhetorically or make symbolic talks. Israel should retreat forever from Palestine Lands and Hamas will establish the new Palestine. Hamas will have its guns and other military staff just as Israel do. Because they are both countries and no country has right to ask from other to disarm itself.This would be ridiculous.

I ask you to fix your attention at one point. Did you also realize that you still defend Israel by giving cases from Turkey or Hamas?

This is what you say: Turkey also does this, PKK also does this, hamas punishes people who listens music

Soooo, Israel has every right to kill, slay, murder and invade

This is the way world rolls, right?

By the way, I read a damn quantity of books. Thanks for the advice anyway. I appreciate.


Frankly speaking, I have a respond for every word of your statement. However, I can only come back to this page when I finish my assessments in February as I have strictly no time for the time being to spend hours on which I am sure many aspects will rise.

What I mean by reading is that reading not only the sources you are in favor with but also looking from the opposite angle.


See: Jerusalem, the Biography, Simon Sebag Montefiore, 2011, Wiedenfeld & Nicolson



« Son Düzenleme: Ekim 30, 2011, 02:17:06 öö Gönderen: Isis »


 

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