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Gönderen Konu: Regularity  (Okunma sayısı 4232 defa)

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Eylül 27, 2006, 04:24:02 öö
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Regularity

Regularity is a constitutional mechanism by which Grand Lodges or Grand Orients give one another mutual recognition. This recognition allows formal interaction at the Grand Lodge level, and gives individual Freemasons the opportunity to attend meetings at Lodges in other recognized jurisdictions. Conversely, regularity proscribes interaction with Lodges that are irregular.

Grand Lodges that afford mutual recognition and allow intervisitation are said to be in amity. Regularity as far as the UGLE Constitution is concerned, is based around a number of Landmarks, set down in their constitution and the constitutions of those Grand Lodges with which they are in amity. Even within this definition there are some variations with the quantity and content of the Landmarks from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Other Masonic groups organise differently.

However, even without formal recognition of regularity, some Grand Lodges continue informal relations.
- Sahsima ozel mesaj atmadan once Yonetim Hiyerarsisini izleyerek ilgili yoneticiler ile gorusunuz.
- Masonluk hakkinda ozel mesaj ile bilgi, yardim ve destek sunulmamaktadir.
- Sorunuz ve mesajiniz hangi konuda ise o konudan sorumlu gorevli yada yonetici ile gorusunuz. Sahsim, butun cabalarinizdan sonra gorusmeniz gereken en son kisi olmalidir.
- Sadece hicbir yoneticinin cozemedigi yada forumda asla yazamayacaginiz cok ozel ve onemli konularda sahsima basvurmalisiniz.
- Masonluk ve Masonlar hakkinda bilgi almak ve en onemlisi kisisel yardim konularinda tarafima dogrudan ozel mesaj gonderenler cezalandirilacaktir. Bu konular hakkinda gerekli aciklama forum kurallari ve uyelik sozlesmesinde yeterince acik belirtilmsitir.


Mart 02, 2007, 01:35:59 ös
Yanıtla #1
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Unfortunately, over and above the standards for regularity (strict adherence to the Ancient Charges and Landmarks of the Order) the UGLE and The Commission on Information for Recognition have introduced an additional requirement for recognition by them (exclusive territorial jurisdiction - 1952).

This is neither Ancient Charge nor Landmark.

For this reason alone there are many Grand Lodges in the world that are perfectly "regular" but which are not "recognised" by the UGLE or The Commission, and this policy is often selectively and conveniently applied.

This issue, amongst others, was debated by the Commission on Information for Recognition on the 19th February 2007 in response to a paper sent fom The Grand Lodge of All England.  Although some American Grand Masters within the Commission have spoken out against this outdated policy in the past, we await the outcome of their deliberations.

This concept is an abuse of a monopoly position.  In our humble opinion, this policy is pernicious, wicked and un-Masonic.  It divides Freemasons, one from another.  It must end eventually due to the accelerating decline in membership of the UGLE grouping and the continued growth in membership of the other regular Grand Lodges which are themselves forming Masonic groupings, for example "Grande Loge Uni D'Europe".

Better that it be done away with now for moral Masonic reasons rather than wait for the inevitable meeting of lines on the membership graph.


Mart 02, 2007, 02:10:24 ös
Yanıtla #2
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Alıntı
For this reason alone there are many Grand Lodges in the world that are perfectly "regular" but which are not "recognised" by the UGLE or The Commission, and this policy is often selectively and conveniently applied.
Some of the Lodges are not recognized. you are right. But there are lots of reasons for that.  As you already know, there are recognition committees in each GL and their criterias are usually little different than each other.

Some GLs doesnt even ask to get recognize. The ones that asked, has different working rules and rituals so they dont get recognized. Sometimes its only because of the government type (as Lebanon).

Is The Grand Lodge of All England recognized by UGLE?

Alıntı
This concept is an abuse of a monopoly position.  In our humble opinion, this policy is pernicious, wicked and un-Masonic.  It divides Freemasons, one from another.
If the UGLE doesnt recognize a Lodge, There should be a good reason for that. Just like American GLs, there must be good reason, so they dont recognize others.

I can open a fraternity now and call my members Masons.  But if i dont get recognized, my fraternity isnt worth any good. If i wanna be recognized, i have to play the game by their rules. I cant make changes unless i become one of them. but once i am one of them, i can try to improve things and make my society better.

I dont think where/whose the Lodge matters. We are the oldest and strongest fraternity in the world. We are bind to our traditions and obligations. Thas how we came all the way now.

I still think its all about playing the game by the rules.
- Sahsima ozel mesaj atmadan once Yonetim Hiyerarsisini izleyerek ilgili yoneticiler ile gorusunuz.
- Masonluk hakkinda ozel mesaj ile bilgi, yardim ve destek sunulmamaktadir.
- Sorunuz ve mesajiniz hangi konuda ise o konudan sorumlu gorevli yada yonetici ile gorusunuz. Sahsim, butun cabalarinizdan sonra gorusmeniz gereken en son kisi olmalidir.
- Sadece hicbir yoneticinin cozemedigi yada forumda asla yazamayacaginiz cok ozel ve onemli konularda sahsima basvurmalisiniz.
- Masonluk ve Masonlar hakkinda bilgi almak ve en onemlisi kisisel yardim konularinda tarafima dogrudan ozel mesaj gonderenler cezalandirilacaktir. Bu konular hakkinda gerekli aciklama forum kurallari ve uyelik sozlesmesinde yeterince acik belirtilmsitir.


Mart 02, 2007, 03:58:52 ös
Yanıtla #3
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I agree. I don't consider splintering off and forming new "Masonic Lodges" when you don't agree with grand lodges' decisions. It's untraditional.  Even if the reasons are not in the "Ancient Landmarks" they might still very well be "Valid" e.g Just because ancient landmarks do not dictate how and what to sell on lodge functions, does not  mean you can auction "people" or "guns" in the lodge ;) It might not be illegal, but it's not "RIGHT".

In most of the countries Grand Lodges consist of devout masons who have served suitable times in their lodges/districts would be considered very well versed on what's right or wrong (masonically). This does not mean they know it all, but a class of such men to agree/disagree on something should not be taken lightly.

I don't know if you're from a lodge that splintered off and not recognised or if you were just pointing out to some facts. Either way consider the consequences of lodges splitting off because they do not "Agree" with the GL. Now go back in time, and apply the same situation to the historical events. What would have happened   if every lodge that did not agree with others splintered off? Would there be a LODGE or a fraternity left to splinter off of? I think not.


Mart 02, 2007, 04:09:58 ös
Yanıtla #4
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By the way,
Nice pic.
- Sahsima ozel mesaj atmadan once Yonetim Hiyerarsisini izleyerek ilgili yoneticiler ile gorusunuz.
- Masonluk hakkinda ozel mesaj ile bilgi, yardim ve destek sunulmamaktadir.
- Sorunuz ve mesajiniz hangi konuda ise o konudan sorumlu gorevli yada yonetici ile gorusunuz. Sahsim, butun cabalarinizdan sonra gorusmeniz gereken en son kisi olmalidir.
- Sadece hicbir yoneticinin cozemedigi yada forumda asla yazamayacaginiz cok ozel ve onemli konularda sahsima basvurmalisiniz.
- Masonluk ve Masonlar hakkinda bilgi almak ve en onemlisi kisisel yardim konularinda tarafima dogrudan ozel mesaj gonderenler cezalandirilacaktir. Bu konular hakkinda gerekli aciklama forum kurallari ve uyelik sozlesmesinde yeterince acik belirtilmsitir.


Mart 12, 2007, 02:34:51 öö
Yanıtla #5
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Thank you.

No, not a split or disagreement at all.  We resigned from the UGLE for positive reasons.  We wanted to repone or reclaim an existing though dormant Grand Lodge, The Grand Lodge of All England, or more accurately its time immemorial warrant which dates back to AD 1600 and before.

In reinstating the Grand Lodge of All England we have also reinstated our original Anglo Saxon Freemasonry.

Most importantly we have reinstated the original ancient York rituals, the original secret words and penalties of all 9 Craft degrees plus the Holy Order of Grand High Priest.

So it is a great deal more than simply starting a "new" Grand Lodge because we objected to the current one or its decisions, which of course we don't.  Who are we to tell them how to run their Freemasonry?  It would be like them trying to tell us how to run ours.  That would be the height of impertinence.

No, the UGLE does its own thing and we do ours.  They don't need us and we don't need them.

After 15 months we have 12 Lodges established here in England and we are in Amity with the Grand Loge de France, and will be taking part in the Annual Conference of the Grand Loge Uni d'Europe later this year.

So the landscape is changing and life is a little more interesting.

Now this is a genuine question.  Why do some of you get so upset about this?  You seem to take it personlly for some reason and this is not what we want.

Is it not unreasonable on the one hand to dissaprove of us, and then on the other hand to approve of  The United Grand Lodge of England?

How did the UGLE start after all?  There was an incumbent Grand Lodge in place in 1717 and 1723.  Initially the UGLE called itself Grand Lodge of London and then in 1738 went on to self proclaim itself a Grand Lodge for the whole of England.  They then went ahead and populated elsewhere in England with UGLE Lodges.  All against the wishes of the incumbent and much older Grand Lodge of All England which existed for many years thereafter.

There is room for us  both.  The success of one does not mean damage to the other.


Mart 12, 2007, 03:40:38 ös
Yanıtla #6
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Nobody's upset :) I just wanted to know the reasons. You know how and what happens when lodges split and start forming new establishments. It affects freemasonry as a WHOLE. People who are not familiar with freemasonry don't care if one lodge/grand lodge is approved by others or not. They see it as freemasonry.  There is no such thing as disapproval on my end. In order to disapprove, I would have to have some information first, and It's my habit to not to pass judgment on anything before I have sufficient information on the subject.

Is your grand lodge recognized by other grand lodges throughout the world or is it considered clandestine?


Mart 12, 2007, 03:45:32 ös
Yanıtla #7
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I have some questions about your Grand Lodge, if you dont mind answering...
Do you accept women or ateists to become a Mason?
Does (Regular) Scottish Rite recognizes your Grang Lodge and your members?
Does (Regular) York Rite recognizes you Grand Lodge and your members?

and if your Grand Lodge, this much similar to UGLE, how come your GL is still not recognized? why did you want to be seperated from which we call Regulars?
« Son Düzenleme: Mart 12, 2007, 03:47:08 ös Gönderen: MASON »
- Sahsima ozel mesaj atmadan once Yonetim Hiyerarsisini izleyerek ilgili yoneticiler ile gorusunuz.
- Masonluk hakkinda ozel mesaj ile bilgi, yardim ve destek sunulmamaktadir.
- Sorunuz ve mesajiniz hangi konuda ise o konudan sorumlu gorevli yada yonetici ile gorusunuz. Sahsim, butun cabalarinizdan sonra gorusmeniz gereken en son kisi olmalidir.
- Sadece hicbir yoneticinin cozemedigi yada forumda asla yazamayacaginiz cok ozel ve onemli konularda sahsima basvurmalisiniz.
- Masonluk ve Masonlar hakkinda bilgi almak ve en onemlisi kisisel yardim konularinda tarafima dogrudan ozel mesaj gonderenler cezalandirilacaktir. Bu konular hakkinda gerekli aciklama forum kurallari ve uyelik sozlesmesinde yeterince acik belirtilmsitir.


Mart 12, 2007, 04:58:53 ös
Yanıtla #8
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I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression.  I did not suggest for a moment that the Brethren on this Forum were annoyed or upset.  What I said was that this is often the case elsewhere for some inexplicable reason.  Also, our Grand Lodge is only similar in respect of the first four of nine Craft Degrees and The Holy Order of Grand High Priest.

No split.  To cause a split it would have been necessary for whole Lodges to leave the UGLE rather than just a few of its members.  So, no split.  Please rest assured that the UGLE is entirely "intacto".

This Grand Lodge is a strict observance and entirely regular Grand Lodge.  The Ancient Charges, Rules, regulations and Landmarks are strictly observed.  VERY strictly.

We do not take part in any system of "recognition" and we do not accept the authority of the UGLE or any other Grand Lodge in this regard.

When it comes to intervisitation our entire concern is focused on the regularity of the Brother concerned.

For instance, UGLE members are only allowed to visit our Lodges where the degrees of Apprentice, Fellow, Mark Master Mason and Master Mason are concerned.  For instance, they are not permitted to be present at the Installation of a Master of one of our Lodges because, in our terms, they are not qualified to take part in the full ceremony as practised in Ancient times.

Recognition: may I give you an example to think about? (there are many others):

The Grand Lodge of Iran in Exile is not recognised by the UGLE;  The Grand Lodge of Iran in Exile is recognised by The Grand Lodge of Massachussetts; The Grand Lodge of Massachussetts is recognised by the UGLE.  I don't know whether or not The Grand Lodge of Iran in Exile recognises the UGLE which does not recognise them?

Is the Grand Lodge of Iran in Exile a recognised Grand Lodge?  It is without any doubt a Regular Grand Lodge.  Like ourselves it is NOT recognised by the UGLE, and yet GLoIran in Exile is recognised in the United States of America by one of the UGLE's own daughter Grand Lodges.

We do have Treaties of Amity, which formally allow intervisitation between members of Grand Lodges (Apprentice, Fellow, Mark Master Mason and Master Mason only), and similarly we also allow members of other regular Grand Lodges to visit by invitation and subject to the usual strict proofs.

I hope that this clarifies our situation.


Eylül 14, 2008, 02:30:34 ös
Yanıtla #9

 there is an example conversation between two masons :) we can understand that masonry is a iceberg and it has a lot of faces.
thanks for your afford...
Bilgi , en kutsal güçtür !